tv The David Rubenstein Show Peer to Peer Conversations PBS January 10, 2020 11:00pm-11:31pm PST
announcer: support for the pbs presentatation of this program s provided by general motors. man: i see a future. woman: i see a good future. woman: i see a future filled with roads and no rage. both: we see a future... man: with zero crashes. man: i see a future ere fossil fuels... man: are a thing of the past. all: we see a future with zero emissions. second man: keeps perfect time. third man: where intelligence is always by design. four: we see a future with zero congestion. woman: zero congestion. man: we are... second man: we are... both: we are... all: general motors. david rubenstein: do you think that women can run defense companies better than men, or theiecan run all compbetter than men? marillyn hewsome: i would just say, david, it's a team sport. it isn't all about me. david: donald trumsasent out a tweet ying that your biggest product, the f-35, was too expensive. marillyn: i pers tally engaged, mym engaged and had a chan to have a dialogue with him.
david: what'so unique about f-35? marillyn: it is the most advanced fhter in the world. david: you were recently voted the 22nd most powerful woman in the entire world. marillyn: i get a note from my brother that said, "well, why was oprah higher than you?" or sometng like that. david: ok. woman: would you fix your tie, please? david: well, people wouldn't recognize me if my tie was fixed, but ok. just leave it this way. i don't consider myself a journalist. and nobody else would consider myself a journalist. i began to take on the life ve being an interviewerthough i have a day job of running ir a private equity fm. how do you define leadership? what is it that makes somebody tick? david: since you've been the ceo, the stock has gone up roughly 330%,
the market capitalization is up ughly 280%. another company that you compete with, general dynamics, has a female ceo as well, and their stock is up about 250% since she became-- [applause] the ceo. that's phebe novakovic. do you think t women can run defense companies better than men, or therun all companies better than men? [laughter and applause] marillyn: i'm just looking at the audience, how many women are out there clapping, but, david-- [cheers and applause] oh! i would just say, david, it's a team sport. it isn't all about me on the performance of o company, but i'm really proud about what our team has been able to accomplish over the last 5, 6 years. d: so when you walk into the shareholders' meetings, do they give you a standing ovation? they must be pretty happy. marillyn: we had some happy shareholders, yes, but th always, you know, theywayss to make sure that we're constantly creating value,
so it's, "what have you done for me lately?" dao, um. ok. during the transition of the prident of the united states, donald trump sent out a tweet saying that your biggest produ, the f-35, was too expensive. and i thcok you were out of thtry at the time? marillyn: i was. i was in israel where we were delivering their first two f-35s. david: so what was your reaction to the president of the unid states tweeting that you were charging the u.s. government too much? marillyn: well, first of all, a we needed to get thocraft delivered. and, you know, one of the most interesting things was that prime minister netanyahu, he was at that event. was going to get a better price on those aircraft and,now, maybe he should get a rebate so that presented a bit of a challenge. but what was important was to recognize what our president-elect was communicating.
he was trying to communicate to the american people that he was going to be-- that he was going to get good deals ha the equipment he purcd and that he was going to increase defense spending, but he was going to make sur th he spent the taxpayer's dollar wisely, and so i personally engaged, my team engaged, and had a chance to have a dialogue with him. david: was that the first time you ever met him or had you knownimefore? marillyn: no, i'd never known him before. but i had an opportunity with him. this was bhe was president, so this was in december before he camento his role in juary. so i went to mar-a-lago, i went to the trump tower. i just started the dialogue, because what's important was for him to-- for us to be able to answer his questions, for him to understand the pabilities that that was gonna bring our men and women in uniform, how important it was, and then what we were doing to drive the price down. david: so you did give him a little discount? marillyn: we drove the price down, yes. we got the dea, and we did it in an accelerated fashion. and he definitely had an influence on that.
david: now, since he's been president, e budgets have gone up, and recently the budget caps have been lifted even further. the defense buanet's now higher t's ever been, i think over--when you count everything-- over $700 billion annually. so is this a great time to be a defense coany ceo? marillyn: well, let me just put it in perspective for you. we're certainly encouraged by the fact that our country is now spending more on defense. but if you just sort of look back over the last few years, we're play catch-up in a large way. we certainly want to maintain our technological superiority over our adversaries or over the potential adversaries. t's meant for industry is that we manage through that downturn, just like any well-managed company, buidn't invest at the level that we would have in terms of innovation and in terms of other areas of the business because weere in a down cycle. now with the up cycle, it's time for us to really bring forth the innovations and continue to spend the efforts that whave in line with the priorities of our customers. david: rightly or wrongly, many people in the public
say, well, defense contractors are too expensive and they don'tthe best image, you might say, some circles, maybe not in circles you travel in, but some circles, people would say defense companies ypare not the most popular of companies. do you think that's an unfair image? and why do you think that imagexists in some parts of the country? marillyn: well, i'll start by saying i tnk, unfortunately, that image is something that we see for large corporations and large institutes in general today. and it's something that we face and have a dialogue around of how do we communicate to the american people what large corporations ti and what large instis do. and from a defense contractor standpoint, what's different for us is that things are much more transparent. you know awe're no different thther fortune 500 or fortune 100 company that's engaged in the activities, but we're investing in the communities where we work and live. we're spen lot on philanthropy. we're bringing a lot of economic growth.
i mean, you consider-- you mentioned our $51 billion sales. you think about the jobs and all of that that it does for the economy and what we invest in stem education, david: so to be the ceo of a major defense company-- you're the largest defense contractor the united states government has, right? so do you need a security clearance? and how long does it take to get one of those? [laughter] marillyn: well, you know, 60,000 of our employees have security clearances, so it's a very important element of our business. i persally have to have ceain-- we have sensitive and classified information that i need to be briefeon, so i have the appropriate clearance associated with that. david: so let me talk about your background. you grew up in kansas, and your father died when y were 9 years old, and you had 4 siblings. and how di mother support 5 children? mariugyn: well, it was frankly. i mean, my father was with the department of the army.
my mother was the at-home mom with 5 children. and it knocked the out of, you know, what was a-- we were--we were not-- we were anverage family, but it set us back a lot. i reat credit to my mother who raised 5 children on her own. and she just passed away a couple of years ago at 97, so, i mean, an incredible life that she had. [applause] david: she was from alabama? marillyn: she taught us-- she was from alama. but she taught us the value of a dollar. we had to learn how to g onomize at a very youne. she'd send us in to pay the power bill, the electric bill. she just got her kt and said, "you've got to learn how to do these things because you've got to be"-- v it taught me to y self-reliant, i would say. david: well, i was told that she used to say to you, "go to the grocery stor. and bring back $7 of groceries." marillyn: yes. that's true. that's very true. learn how to econoze. so i learned early how to economize, yes. david: ok. so you went to the university of alama. and did you get a scholarship? you didn't have to work?
marillyn: oh, no, i didn't have a scholarship. i worked nights. i worked what was called the graveyard shift, so to speak, from 11:00 at night to 7:00 in the morning, then i went to class from 8:00 to 1:00 or 2:00, and then i'd sleep, unless i had a date, and then i would go right back to work without slping because you can do that when you're 18 years old or 19 years old. but yes, i worked full-time, paid my own way through school, finishedn 3 1/2 years. and, you know, you do what you had to do. david: ok. so after you graduated, did you say, "i want to be the ceo of lockheed martin"? or what did you say? marillyn: no, i started looking for a job. i took a job as an economist here in washington with the bureau of labor statistics out of college. they were in the mrost of redoing thecer price index. it was a good job for a grad student to come in. and so i actually started my career here 4 years later, you look for the next position, and i interviewed at several comnies, one of which was lockheed in marietta, georgia,
and started there as a senior industrial engineer. dao have you everun into any people from the bureau of labor statistics who, or you know, you wereng for in those days and now you're the ceo of lockheed martin? have they ever called you for a job or anything since then? marillyn: no, but i do hear from them now and then. you know, this era of social media, now and then i'll ge an email from sobody or i might run into somebody in the local area worked with, that was many years ago. i mean, think about it, i've been at lockheed 35 years, so that was a long time ago. david: but they all say they knew you were going to be successful? they always say that. marillyn: oh, no, no. david: they don't say that? marillyn: no. david: so when you went to marietta, georgia, you worked your way up. you had, i think, 22 different leadership positions, so you must have been moving around a lot. m marillyn: i was ietta for about 13 years. 18 months in, i was promoted to supervisor of industrial engineering. and at about the two-year mark, i was pumeon a general mana development program. and great credit to a sponsor that-- e put me forward for ogram. so i spent two years rotating around the company.
and at the end of e two years, i was manager over all of our production estimating and budgets. david: now, at one point, your husband was unemployed. and he got a job interanew with a co and wh company was that? marillyn: he surprised me a bit. his company went out of business, d so he was out looking. we had a 5-month-old baby, so we were very much hoping he'd find a job. and it was a toue labor market at time. but he came home one day and said, k, i got a job." and i said, "where?" he said, "at lockheed." and i went, "what?" sorry. i said, "what? why my company?" you know. but it just turned out he went to work in the we didn't really cross paths. i waing industrial engineering by that time. but it's interting. for about 5 years--he retired from lockheed after 5 years. david: so you have given him a lot of credit for what you have been able to achieve. because you might describe-- after he retired, he took on a role that sa many people woul a woman might have normally taken on, or a wife, and he took on that traditional ro.
is that fair to say? marillyn: ye i say he retired. our kids were 3 and 6, two boys. we moved to fort worth, texas, because my job moved us. -- and so at the ti you know how stressful it is to have a couple of young children at home. i said, "why don't we try you workinom home for a year?" and we just never changed the model. so he became the at-home dad, he was, you know, the coach, he was the scout leader, he waswent on the field trips, and he managed that because i traveled a lot in my job. we were maybe a new-age family back then in the way that we worked, but it worked for us, and day our kids are in, and they're off doing their thing. but when i said he retired, he basically was that 5-year mark, he got a retirement rtk from lockheed not long ago. david: so i guess he's happy with the shareholder performance, as well. marillyn: yes, he is.
[laughter] david: now let's talk a moment about the product i mentioned earlier, they're fighter jets. now i've known for a long time there's an f-14, f-15, f-18, there was an f-22. and then you come up with something called the f-35. what aappened between nd 35? [laughter] marillyn: well, the fact is that aircraft are not numbered by lockheed martin. the u.s. government determines so--and "f" standing for fighter, a "b" for bomber, you know, that terminology is kind of general, and usually it is sequential. we had--we won the contract with our x-35, which was the experimental-- you know, you name them with an "x" or "y" if they were experimental or a prototype. so we had named our offering in this competition,
but when they announced the winner, lockheed was the winner, and the secretary of the air force said the f-35, and we were all shocked because we thought it was going to be the f-23. t'so once he named it, t what number it became. david: you didn't want to tell him he made a mistake, i guess, becaujust awarded the contract, but... so in the history of our country, thfe is the biggest e contract er, tens of billions of dollars, i assume. why does it cost that much to make these planes? and what i so great about this plane? what is so unique about the f-35? rillyn: the f-35a, whichis yourl variant of the aircraft, was priced at $94.3 million, and we're on a path to drive that down to $80 million by 2020 think about that. you know, think about if you fly-- maybe you fly a gulfstream or something like that, think about what you paid for that-- david: occasionally. marillyn: think about the most sophisticated jet fighter
in the world that might cost 0 million. i mean, that's pretty remarkable in my mind. it is the dvanced fighter in the world. so it is basically a force muiplier. it's a fabulous aircraft. i don't have to tell you that. talk to some of the pilots that fly it. david:r-71 was a very famous plane that, i think, now is in the ai sand space museum in tthsonian. it went 6 times the speed of sound, or something like that. marillyn: 3 times, yeah. david: very high. there's a rumor in t defense press sowhere that you're making an sr-72. ht so can you tell us r now, is that true? and hypersonics would be something over mach 5. we're doing work in that technology, hn and it's important tology. so that's probably all i am going to say about it. david: ok. [applause] all right. ok. let's talk a moment about artificial intelligence. presumably that's gog to be very imptant
for defense contractors, as it is for other companies. marillyn: wellreit's a very important that we're investing in. we think our customers are looking for solutionse that technology. but in artificial intelligence, you cathink about-- we're working on a helicopter that will be unmanned. so that's d: opportunity. dan unmanned helicopter? marillyn: an unmanned helicopter. we have other unmanned vehicles that we have, but that autonomy and using the artificial intelligence for ly flying the helicopter-- david: what's the price for the unmanned? is that a little bit... [laughter] all ricot, so unmanned heer, that sounds pretty novel. marillyn: but even in the cockpit of our aircraft, you know, they're using artificial intelligence by fusing information in such doway that the pilon't have to-- the human mind just can't move at the same speed as what you can get through that computing power, and so they can make the right decisions to deal with the situation. and we have such things as collision avoidance. so even on our f-16s, anl be putting this on our f-35, we have technology there through artificial intelligence that if a pilot doesn't realize
that they're about ready to hit the ground, this aircraft will take control and avoid. we've already saved 6 pilots' lives with that type of technology. so that's just a few examples of how we apply the artifceial intellig david: now, one of your otptr products is helicos. you bought sikorsky helicopter from united technologies. why did you buy it? and are they making the marine one, which is the president's helicopter, how much does that cost? marillyn: you are into the prices, aren't you, david? [laughter] david: i'm always trying to get-- you know, i'm always negotiating for a good deal. marillyn: i see. ok, all right. well, first of all, yes, we bought sikorsky and have been doing business with em for 40 years. so, when the opportunity came up, we took the opportunity to buy the company. great integration into our company. brings the black hawk helicopter, it brings the ch-53, k helicopter for the marine cor, and, as you mentioned, the marine one. i'm happy to say that that program is on schedule
and on cost in producing that for the president. david: by it costs a lot of mo make mari one because you have got to have all kinds of security things in there. so it's not something you can sell to any other country, i assume. so you only make, what is it, 23 of them you're gonnmake or something like that? marillyn: yes, that's right. david: and when araithey going to be lable? marillyn: well, we'll be-- we're on a path of-- they'll--you know, we have to go through e test flight. we had the first flight and things like that, it takes time for them to roll out. i think it's 2019 or so that they'll... i was going to mention to you, it is based on the s-92, which is a great commercial helicopter. if you're interested in a helicopter, david, i could suggest one. i mean, i think they're only around, you know, $3llion, $40 million. i mean, i'm sure you can do that. david: maybe we can negotiate. maybe if i can get a gd deal. do you get a discount if you buy two or something? marillyn: we can do a deal. david: what's it like to be the ceo you get about 70% of your revenue, i think, from the u.s. government.
you know, how much of your time do you have to sovnd with the u.s.nment? how do you spend your time, let's say in a typical week, percentage time? marillyn: i would say somewhere between e 60% to 70% of my t is with strategy of the business, the customers, and engagement around the world, eling around the world on the customer side of the business. because it is important in my role to be out meeting with not only our congressional leaders r government leaders to make sure we're aligned with what their needs are and their priorities, but i travel a lot teoutside the united s 30% of our business is outside the united states with governments around the world. david: you were recently voted the 22nd most werful woman in the entire world, not just business,ut everything. so when you saw that, did you say, "i should be higher?" or did you s "that's pretty high?" i mean. on the entire planet of 3.6 billion women? marill: you know, i don't cus that much on it, david.
i get a note from my brother that said, "well, why was oprah higher than you?" or something like that. david: ok. marillyn: but, you know, that's not something i focus-- there's lots of lists. it really comeildown to having the pre of leading a national asset and a company that's doing some of the most important and interesting work in the world. david: when you started out, were you often the only woman in the room at lockheed? marillyn: i s, yes. david: and so was that intimidating or was it the kind of thing where you said, tti can show them i'm than them, the men? marillyn: you know, i think it's like any team you come into. you have to establish your credibility, reffgnizing i was a ent gender, so maybe the first moment i was different in that sense, but after that, once you are contributing and you're part of the team, it was no longer aactor, for me, at least, and through my career. i but i'll tell you wh really positive is that today 22ur leaders are women, 24%, 25% of our workforce are women. so the pipeline of women--
we have many women leaders in the room, and we've co a long way on the piline. back 35 years ago, there weren't as many women coming out of engineering and other professions to cto the workforce, just as the case was for our customer. but yo at our customer today, you look at our military services, how many women are involved, how many men and women, but women are in unifo and in leadership positions, it's just a pipeline issue. and we're alwaking on that pipeline to get more women. david: right. and what you do for laxation? are you an exercise person, are you a traveler, or sports or whateve marillyn: i like to play golf. my husband and i like to get out d play some golf as laxation. i like to travel. i mean, our family gets together and travels. i travel a lot for the job. probably 40%tr50% of my time, el on business travel, but one of the things weeally enjoy is getting together as a family ttravel. i always try to create some fun travel that our kids will find. as lg as mom and dad pays for it
and it's fun, they'lcome. david: some people say the higher a handicap of a ceo, the better the stk will perform. if it's a low handicap, that means the ceo is spending too much time is playingolf. so-- mariyn: you're not going to ask me my handicap, are you, david? david: i assume your-- what your ndicap is-- david: you're not a scratch golfer, i assume. llyn: no way. no. no. i don't play enough for that. david: ok. today--it sounds like it must be pretty low. can you beat your husband, or is he better than you? marillyn: no. well, he's better than me, bu know, i always remind him that there's the average for women and there's e average for men, so as long as i can keep-- david: ok, and if he has a close pu, you just give it to him or just make him putt it out? so today, what is the biggest challenge the u.s. defense industry has? al marillyn: well, the nge that we have is really the challenge our customers have. we have an environment where the threats today are so difficult around the world,
the global security environment is so unpredictable and is changing so rapidly, so you have a need for solutions to address that and to stay ahead of the threat anstay ahead of the adversaries. at the same time, we have constrained budgets and the budget pressures that we've faced over the last several years, and maybe we're having to spend money on near-term getting things back up to readiness instead of investing in what we need to to address io the power compet that we have out there with our adversaries. so that then in turn is a challenge r industry, we've got to--you know, we've got ve with speed while at the same time driving costs down. david: what about cyber warfare? that must be an important part of your business w. hodo you make certain that our enemies around the world 't trying to get your secrets? mariyn: i can't-- i mean, they are trying to get our secrets. this is a constant threat that a company like ours and many companies have in the u.s.
of other countries trying to get at our secrets. and we takery seriously because we know that we are a target and goe rnment customers target, so we've invested a lot in the technologies to protect that, but i think it's a constant. you know, these threats are advanced and they're asymmetric and they're constantly changing. it's really imt for us to stay on top of that and keep investing in it. lidavid: i mentied ear, since you became the ceo, your stock is up. if i bought would i also see a very significant gain in 4 years or 5 years? or you think the prices are already so high for thnse stocks? marillyn: david, i am not going to advise you on stock price today. think you're really good at that. but i would tell you this, for our compy, are always focused on creating shareholder value. so just know that's our commitment, and we're going to drive the company for growth and novation and for shareholder value. david: well, as long as you're the ceo,
i'd probab i be happy to be estor. but how long might you be the ceo? do you have any plan if the president of the united states called you and said, or sng like that, would you entertain that, or you're gonna stay where you are for a while? marillyn: in our company, i mean, i feel very privileged. i love the work that we do, the team of remarkable people that i work with that, you know, have the highest integrity. i love working at lockheed martin. and i serve at the pleasure of the board of directors, so how long i work will be up to them. but today, i'm really enjoying the work that m doing and i have no intention of stepping down from my role. david: well, whenever you do step down-- at some point, you might step down, at some point, 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, would you consider the higher calling of private equity? [laughter] marillyn: well, you know, as i told you, i have a passion for business. i ght very well consider that, david. david: well, whenever you do step down, please let me know, i'll be happy to talk to you. thank you very much.
marillyn: thank you. announcer: support for the pbs presentation of this program was provided by general motors. man: i see a future. woman: i see a good future. woman: i see a future filled with roads and no rage. both: a future... man: with zero crashes. woman: i see a future where fossil fuels... man: are a thing of the past. all: we see a fure with zero emisons. man: i see a future where traffic... second man: keeps peect time. third man: where intelligence is always by design. fourth man: we see a future with zero congestion. woman: zero congestion. second man: we are... both: we are... all: general motors. you're watching pbs. ♪
>> he fled british politics and a family intrigue for a new ssion, this week on "firing line." >> i came into politics h make a difference, and now i'm leaving britlics to make a differce. >> as a protégé to tony blair, david miliband was foreign secretary and a favorite to lead the labour party in britain. >> the miliband brothers .e said to be neck and ne >> david, i love you so much, and i have such extraordinary respect for the campaign that you ran. >> in david miliband's cond act, he attends to the global refugee crisis as head of the international rescue committee, based in new york. >> this is not just a crisis, it's a test of our humanity. >> his focus -- 70 millionle displaced peorldwide. he also keeps an eye on the politics of boris johnson and donald trump. what does david miliband y now? >> "firing line with margaret hoover" is made